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The Power of Multilayered Experiences — Marty Bell

In our Season 3 kick-off episode, Jess sits down with Marty Bell, founder of Poolsuite, for an inside look into the Poolsuite universe. Poolsuite is one of those irresistible brands that’s nearly impossible to explain. That’s partially due to the precisely executed, multilayered experiences across Poolsuite's world, including auditory, visual, digital, and physical goods. Jess and Marty pull-apart the experiential details that define Poolsuite, and surface lessons from their most recent release, Grand Leisure. They explore the novel interactions of web3 brands and businesses, DAOs as incubators for community ideas, and the importance of technology optionality.

Show Notes
& Relevant Links

Marty Resources:

https://twitter.com/marty
https://twitter.com/poolsuite
https://poolsuite.net/
https://www.vacation.inc/
https://grandleisure.org/
https://manordao.com/
https://palmreport.poolsuite.net

Time - Stamps:

0:00 - Intro
3:33 - Genesis Of Poolsuite
7:43 - Initial Poolsuite Post
9:46 - The Evolution of Poolsuite
13:15 - Poolsuite Moves to Web3
20:21 - A View Into The Game Plan
23:07 - Executive Membership NFT
41:42 - Grand Leisure NFT
47:23 - Overcoming Challenges
49:49 - Why Build in Web3
52:06 - How Vacation Success Informs Building Today
56:24 - Lightning Questions
61:22 - Wrap Up

Transcript

Jess Sloss 1:49
Marty, welcome to the podcast.

Marty Bell 1:51
I'm so happy to be here with you, Jess Sloss.

Jess Sloss 1:55
I was just saying before the recording to salvage a joy it is to share these conversations because I feel like so much of my last year or so has been, you know, punctuated with these weird wilds expansive, challenging, interesting conversations that surround this thinks that you're trying to build, you know, the state of the world, the future of the space that we're building in. So I'm excited to get into that conversation with you here today. I know people are excited to hear about it, I want to first take us back a little bit because my I was trying to think about like the first time we met, I have just such a vivid memory of it, which was in Miami, which is like the perfect place to meet Marty is in Miami, and I'm sitting at a taco joint. And I think I had surveys in my hand and getting messages from you saying you're gonna be a bit late, then all of a sudden, I just see you walk across the street carrying a Poolsuite bag in a full, tropical themed shirt, you know, with just, it was just like, yes, of course. That's Marty and you roll up. And then I think you do the first thing you said is like, oh, man, I'm so hungover. Because you had such a fun night, the night before doing something, that's what you're late on. I don't know how you can embody the Poolsuite brands so fully, not only in the digital space, but in this first physical interaction. Yeah, I look back on that fondly.

Marty Bell 3:08
Love the brand, the best brands or personifications of their founders, or something like that. Love it. So okay, trying to be the brand or the brands or trying to be me, I don't know what your way it goes.

Jess Sloss 3:18
The line is fuzzy. And I think that's part of the magic here. So let's go right back, because I think there's like, depending on where one was introduced to Poolsuite, you may have a sort of a different origin story. And so maybe we can go right back to sort of the beginning, maybe with a little bit of your history, like what was the genesis for Poolsuite? What are the world look like? And what are you trying to go do.

Marty Bell 3:37
So I've always seen internet projects and brands as businesses as kind of wrappers or vehicles to explore all the things that you're interested in. So that goes as far back as when I was about 13 years old, I started on our chat room for teenagers around the world to chat about photography and painting and anything. And the tagline was the future of AR, but we don't give a fuck. That was like my thing when I was 13. And I very quickly realized from doing that, that my life got exponentially more exciting and interesting because I'd started something. And I'd taken a group of people and put them around something that we were all equally excited about. So that was like a very early an important realization to make that when you start something of your own and you gather people around a passion, your life gets more interesting and more exciting. And I think it was even more important. There was nothing to do with money. I wasn't going into a business venture. I just wanted to start something that was like everything I wanted to talk about every day, which was like I don't know camera lenses and direct thermal cameras and things like that. The star of Poolsuite which was called Poolsuite FM at the time was just me playing around online and putting together two things that I was really excited by at the time and it was this like John responding type of music that was just felt like It was dripping in sunshine and summer. And it always brought me out of a bad mood and always made me feel really happy. And I was I think I had a Tumblr at the time, and I was posting those cracks on Tumblr, and I was posting ATS VHS visuals and gifts that I'd cut out of a speech movies. And that was like my whole Tumblr. And I think at some point, I don't really remember this, but I must have decided this could make its own website and you go on it. And it just plays that music and as ridiculous scenes from a speech movies. So that's what I did I put the really janky shitty website up there still, you can see the Reddit post, maybe I'll find it if someone tweets me or I'll try to remember to put it out later. The first ever post online about Poolside FM is me on Reddit, trying to find someone to build the website and I think I'm offering like $200 to build the poolside website, and it's a breakdown of how I want it to work, it's this like pairing SoundCloud playlists with YouTube playlists. It's gonna be the stupid little novelty site. And so that was just me playing on around online wanting to put something out into the world because I was excited about it. And it made me feel good. And I want to share it. So I did that. I probably had 50 Twitter followers at the time, no followers on Instagram or anything, but something about it clicked with the Internet. And I remember having TweetDeck open and just for days, there was just people posting poolside.fm And I like couldn't keep up with all the tweets. It was just non stop this thing. It's my first ever thing that went viral.

Jess Sloss 6:27
I was one of those people was so wild to me was just seeing. So like the context that I discovered Poolsuite for was just like, the era of everything becoming a social network was kind of when it came out, right social network apps are happening all over the place. You know, this is before the social network winter. And what I think stood out about Poolsuite was it wasn't trying to be anything but this extremely simple thing. And he just it was counterculture to internet culture at that moment, and in so many ways where it wasn't about building a following. It wasn't about you know, being an influencer, even though I don't even know if that was the name that we were using back then. And it just felt very different. I think that's what really hit and yet it was well produced, it was had all the love and attention that you would have expected from and probably more so than you would expect it from many of these startups that were launching it on time. And yet it was not trying to be anything more than this playlist with some visuals and a vibe on the internet. I'm sure I discovered it through some of those tweets, I'm sure I retweeted and shared it back in those days. And I think it's just wild to be sitting here chatting with you after such a round bold way.

Marty Bell 7:25
Probably a silly idea. We didn't take emails, you couldn't sign up. It was literally just you went on and it played music and played the visual that was it. I think there was a Facebook like button. And that dates it when everyone would embed the Facebook Like button on the sidebar. I think that was there. So that was all we had a Facebook page that's now unused that we built up.

Jess Sloss 7:42
So that initial post and it led to like really wild distribution and awareness. Like can you tell us a little bit about sort of that success and maybe how it evolved over the next little while?

Marty Bell 7:52
Yeah, so at the time, I was also launching a sunglasses brand called 10s. And that was the serious thing I normally have a day to day business that I'm building. And I'll have something that I playing around with in the evening has nothing to do with money, it's just me my interest, it's nice to have something that's not about money. So this is what I was doing at the time, I was playing around with Poolsuite and evenings I was working on my sunglasses company in the day. So I was seeing the potential of Poolsuite or poolside FM at the time. But I knew I didn't want to try and financialization auto monetize it, I was already doing that with the sunglasses, then I just thought I'm going to keep building the audience. And I'm going to build up the Instagram page, build a following around it. And at some point, when I'm not busy with other business, I'll do something with it. I'm just going to keep having fun with it until then. So I'm just like shit posting every day on Instagram, I'm finding great music to put on the site and just having a great time with it. I didn't feel the need to turn it into anything. I wasn't trying to find growth hack. I was just playing around with it. There was no mission or big idea or a plan whatsoever.

Jess Sloss 8:56
And yet, you're now winning Apple Appstore design awards, you know, the who's who of the internality back in the day are posting about it and probably reaching out to you like this thing reached the level of cultural success that I mean, you realize that right?

Marty Bell 9:12
When I saw Jack Dorsey like a tweet about Poolsuite being on the best websites in the world, I knew that we'd reached a certain point of that a lot of people know about this thing now. Still insane that that happened.

Jess Sloss 9:23
The Internet felt like such a much smaller place back then, for some reason that it probably wasn't I mean, maybe I guess it probably was but also wasn't at the same time supposed to be it kind of comes out of this thing. It seems to me at least in my experience, there's like this gap between when I first discovered it, and then you know, check in on it and then more recently checked in on it again, and seems like there's an evolution there but also a wonderful lack of evolution there like what was sort of like the, you know, when you're doing this nights and weekends, what was the sustain over the growing or the innovation that you're pushing forward? Or was it just kind of a thing that sat there.

Marty Bell 9:54
For years that kind of just sat there and I would update the playlist every couple of weeks and I'd update to Instagram most days, but behind the scenes the whole time, I was trying to find designers and developers who wanted to work on this thing for free, which is very difficult. The project had no money, I didn't have a huge amount of money to be paying people to work on it. And finding a world class team of designers and developers to work on something for no money. Turns out, it's quite difficult. But somehow, I found that team, I found that team and people like Nick Decker, one of the best designers on Earth, who we are lucky to have on our team, he works on mischief, and Lewis Kane on front end developer, josh McMillan who built our iOS app, I got a crew of people like this around a project to relaunch the whole website in the summer of 2019. And we relaunched it, so it was the desktop operating system, say, and then we launched the iOS app, which is a very distinct vintage retro UI and experience. And at that point, have exploded on a whole new level, I think there was over a million people on the website that year, a quarter of a million of them in Japan, it went nuts at that point, when we re released it. And at that point, I was now out of the sunglasses company. And I was in the middle of launching a FinTech company. So even more serious, even more difficult, needed way more of my time. And I'm thinking, Okay, this is the best problem ever to have that I have this exploding thing, but I don't have time. And I don't know what to do with it. So I started putting word out to my network saying, I don't know what to do with this thing. It's exploding, we get all these offers for stuff like swimwear, lines, collaborations and craft beers. Like all this stuff I wasn't particularly excited about until I got speaking to a couple of guys, I got introduced to New York, who were launching a sunscreen brand. And we started talking about could that be the first thing, the first way for Poolsuite, to monetize is to launch a sunscreen brand out of Poolsuite, and go all in on a custom formulation and a custom sand with a high end fragrance house to make it like this experiential thing. What makes people love it is it's like layers of experiences, the way you interact with the website, it's the sound, it's the video. It's like layers of experience that hits you at once that makes people think like what the hell is this, this is amazing. I love it. Not everyone, some people. And sunscreen was the first product that I realized, like we could do that with the with the packaging with the design with the smell with the texture. So I got incredibly excited about that. So at that point, we started working together on building application that sunscreen brands that we would launch out of Poolsuite as the first way to think about monetizing this community that I built up for those about six or seven years at that point that I hadn't really sold or did anything other than make the free music app, the online site and Instagram.

Jess Sloss 12:53
Overnight success.

Marty Bell 12:55
Indeed.

Jess Sloss 12:56
So I want to jump back into vacation in a bit because I think it's actually a really interesting thing to think through as you know, I know the number of things that you're working on in sort of the Poolsuite web three worlds. But let's maybe go to that next evolution. And maybe this is where our stories start to intersect. The tagline I see my head is Poolsuite moves to web three. And I'm curious if you want to, like you know, rewind a little bit to uncover how you kind of got there how you started to be interested in web three, and were started clicking for you.

Marty Bell 13:24
So vacation, we spun that out as a separate company. And we raised money for that. And so we could use a bit of that funding to like help support Poolsuite. But luckily Poolsuite was still an entity that was not making any money. And I was really getting the urge to go and work on it full time. At this point. If not me, I wanted someone working just on Poolsuite full time. And I was building out a model, which was the best I could come up with was a Patreon model where a small percentage of our fan base might give us 10 20 bucks a month. So we could work on this and build cool things and explore what we could make just generally fuck around and find out which has become the tagline Poolsuite. And at that point, I've been into Crypto since like 2014 2015 start buying Ethereum and followed it very intensely through the whole ICO craze and everything but I really never saw it converging with the things I was like playing around with whether it was like any of the brands I was building until I started seeing art NFTs. And that immediately clicked for me, I immediately got it and loved it. But I still didn't quite see the connection and maybe saw there was some cool art project we could do out of Poolsuite that could bring in some funding to help us keep building things. But then I saw someone use it as a membership. And this was this the biggest lightbulb moment of all time in my career is Holy shit. You can bring in money with NFTs and people can become a member of your thing. And you can use that money to build things for that community there that they're excited about. And you can get access to those things with the NFT and if the people don't want it anymore, they can sell it again. And if you're doing a good job, they can sell it for a profit, the craziest, most amazing model that I've ever seen since I started running businesses. And it's exactly what I was looking for. Because I wanted a way that like, I didn't want to go to a VC and say, This is exactly what we're going to build. And here's how much money we think we're going to make. Here's how we're gonna exit in five years, I wanted to be able to bring in money on then just build things and play around and fuck around and find out with the support of a community that we were building entirely for them, as opposed to building for like some, hacker growth tech startup that's going to exit in a few years. For example, this was exactly what I've been looking for in using brands and businesses as a vehicle to experiment with hundreds or 1000s of people around a shared interest. So as you can tell, I was incredibly excited about that. And within a week of seeing that first membership NFT, I got all the Poolsuite team on a call and I said, I know none of you have crypto wallets and barely know what Ethereum is. We're going all in on web three and membership NFTs and explain to everyone why. And I went through a deck. And by the end of the call, everyone was like fuck yeah, let's do it. This is sick. And I think within a week, like everyone was still up to speed on NFT as other metamask setup. Totally got it.

Jess Sloss 16:14
Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think there's like this difficult to describe new type of thing that is emerging from multiple different places. But I think it's really demonstrated very well in your story and Poolsuite, specifically, because there is this like, download is that a thing that was hard to kind of monetize before, I mean, he could have monetize with ads, there's a number of things he could have done, but it would have completely destroyed the vibe or like the culture, I guess a subculture of people who are into this specific thing. And I think it's what an NFT does. In that case, it sort of provides like a shelling point for belief, or membership or X, whatever word you want to use here. I think belief is maybe the right layer to get at it, and and then all of a sudden that belief can be turned into capital, which then, you know, you're sort of in the phase right now of like, how do you use that capital to continue to expand and deliver value and expand that sense of belief. And I see a lot of folks in the space that are being almost to utilitarian around things, or to financial around things. And I think Poolsuite is this interesting example where it's like it used the word brand before, like, maybe that's the right language to use here is a brand that all these people have a deeper sense of emotional and financial connection to than they would if they're just consuming products, right. So the thing that I really struggled to articulate even in thinking about the process of of Seed Club, because it's like, you hit on something, and then all of a sudden, this stuff starts to emerge, both like within your line of sight, and then even more so outside the line of sight. And it's, you know, I think we use labels and language to be able to contextualize and make sense of these things. And then almost all labels that exist in any major shift are incomplete, or get bastardized or get or confusing, and eventually, you know, that label will be clear. But really, the opportunity lives in this time when we're trying to, you know, explore labels and figure out what the edges are. And so I think that's what really, you know, I think we started to talk right around this time that you sort of went all in on memberships and NFTs. And so many of the, like, my original excitement about Poolsuite was, I don't know if I'd be able to articulate the the exact why or like what is like the, like, if I had to go to an investment committee and be like, Yo, this specific thing is a reason and here's like, you couldn't do that. But anybody who came into that those conversations, and would talk to you about it, we're like, oh, yeah, okay, this obviously makes sense. Like, there's obviously something here. And then they'd be like, why I'm like, Well, I mean, just you should talk to Marty. Like it's, it's it's a weird place to be in.

Marty Bell 18:33
It's been a year off since we almost a year since we did that first NFT sale. And it's been a year of having so many conversations with people like you, the people who are running so many different projects. And everyone is as all these web 3 web 2 web 2.5 Lego blocks, and they're clicking them together and all different ways and holding them up thinking, that looks pretty good. Is that it? And then you like move one piece and slightly changing? Oh, that's a whole different thing. You click it. And another way you're like, No, that's completely illegal. That way, we can't do that. And I feel like it's been it's taken that long of experimenting and speaking to people and new tools emerging and building tools ourselves, to get to the place that we're in now, where I'm really confident about what the model is going forward. It's just it's taken so much time together. And it's exciting to be in a space when there are so many different ways we can take this. But it can be overwhelming as well and scary to pick one route and go all in on it. Because there's so many different models you can choose from. And that's been the hardest thing for me is picking a model to go forward with.

Jess Sloss 19:38
Yeah, that's a common thing I see. I mean, I see it in my own worldview, and I see it across all the folks that are building that we have the pleasure of building with is this. It's like you're building a foundation on what you know, is quicksand, but you don't know which corner is the quicksand and like what's underneath that how deep is it and and at the same time, like you need a roof over your head. So like build, build the thing. We would love to maybe to sort of go through the process, like what it has been through this lens of Poolsuite moving from Web2 to web3, take us through the thinking of the things that you have done. I think people really, you know, there's this mysteriousness around Poolsuite, which both plays in the favor in many ways. And I love your reasoning for that in so many ways, especially through the bull market, etc. And then also, there can I think, be a challenge to understand the depth of thought and planning and, you know, I'm not gonna say the roadmap word, but you know, like the game plan that you're operating on. So I would love to have a view into that.

Marty Bell 20:33
Sure. So a lot of what we've been doing is setting ourselves up to be able to last for decades to come. Well, I think a lot of people don't realize people who are not for any fault of their own, just, if you're buying a few NFTs here and there, and you're not super involved in this space, what you might not be realizing or thinking about is when someone doesn't NFT sale, maybe there is 100k 500k, a million dollars or more, they have to take that money in. And they have to scramble to find a business model that's going to allow them to keep going, they can't just what some people might expect, what some I'm sure a lot of degens expect from the projects that they open to as that project has just raised a million dollars, now they're going to spend a million dollars on delivering us an exciting shit. If they do that the project is left with no money, they can't pay the team. The project is no more. So all of these projects are like trying to find a business model. And when you enter a bear market, the business model cannot just be selling more NFTs to your existing holders has to be a lot more than that. And if you think about the the success rate of VC deals, I have no idea what that is, but it's not super high. And these are vetted founders who have been through extensive due diligence processes NFT project founders are not going through that. And so I think the hit rate of these projects been able to work out and find that sustainable business model to allow them to keep going. It's like significantly lower than Vc backed companies, which is already probably weirdly low. Do you disagree with any of this? I'm interested to know if I'm talking shit or?

Jess Sloss 22:08
Not. I think that's 100%. Correct. I think I mean, what's so interesting in this space is just how we think of like the big last major shift. It was really like Twitter, and Facebook and these networks that are really where we are plugged into the entire world. And the latest thing has happened and those didn't really exist, or they were what was emerging at that time. If you go back to sort of web one, evolution, people are still getting their news from newspapers. And so there's this innovation that's happening, and new things are coming out with the potential to get so much attention. And there's so much volatility that exists around there that it's just a very different, you know, I love the the primordial ooze that these things are emerging from. And I think one of the byproducts of that is volatility. And one of it is that, you know, things that are hype can capture a lot of attention. But yeah, there is still so much to sort of a new innovative, I guess, era that is yet to be figured out. And both, you know, this is like a Google and Facebook are these good examples. These are new things that are now hundreds of billions of dollars. But when they launched, their business models were unclear. Google didn't have AdSense to start Facebook didn't know they could unlock the value from mobile. And so I think we're still in that phase here within, you know, say NFT projects, or web three, or whatever that thing is. But it's even more intense, because it's harder to understand the difference between these folks, and most people don't have a personal relationship with the founder and that trust. And that's what most VCs have, right? So while yes, hit rates super low, you hope people are well vetted, though I don't know if that's necessarily the case in the startup world, either. But there is this connection and a trust that gets built up there that I think allows people to make those gut decisions and in many ways, but the big question that's going to emerge from our entire space is what is where does sustainability come from? What is is the meme valuable on its own? Is this membership is a revenue? Is there multiple things? What's the right level of abstraction to think of these organizations? Is a network? Is it a brand? Is it the platform? Is it the app? and there's a whole lot of experiments happening right now and say I 100% of the room see the vast majority of NFT projects fail, and a couple of going to come out and do big amazing things in the world. And my hope is that Poolsuite is one of those.

Marty Bell 24:06
Me too. So on that note that some of the things we've been doing, they might not seem especially exciting to our community of them might not seem big, but they are the seeds of things that will keep us alive for a long time to come. So some examples would be on our website, we have things that perks.poursuite.net We have a lot of panel where people can claim perks. And right now it's every now and then that is going to turn into the Poolsuite concierge app in the coming months. That will be the home of our NFT holders and people will be able to claim one perk every month and it will be something great. We'll have someone full time finding these perks for the holders. And this is like where your claim your event tickets. And it could be a new product from vacation that you get to claim for free. It could be access to some new thing we've built or something that someone we know is building. So we're very excited about that. They just the perks club side of it. I think that's probably been the main thing So far, and we've done our events, we've done parties in New York, London, Ibiza, Barcelona, I can't think where else, we've done a bunch of events. And that is another piece that they might seem like small events right now, four to 700 people, they've been really successful, it's been a great way for us to bring the community together. But that in itself, that's a business that will help keep us going next year, these events are going to scale up to being 2000 people, and our NFT holders will be able to come along three VIP, but the majority of the people there will just be there because it's a poolsuite party. And we've built an incredible lineup at an incredible venue. So it's allowed us to like set up this whole events business that allow us to keep going and hire a team around that and have major sponsorship lined up for those events. We have palm report a newsletter that we're it's twice monthly, it's going to move to weekly. That's another property that there's a whole media business within that alone on the sponsorship that's going to come alongside that going into next year, that'll hire two, three people on the team. So you can see how I'm thinking about it as we're setting up these really sustainable pillars that whether where there's revenue coming in from the NFT, or not, like our team will be able to keep going for years and years and delivering things whether we're in a bull market, bear market, and we can go in and out of different industries as well. we're most excited about building in web three, but we have the safeguards of the beauty of having a big audience like we have hundreds of 1000s of people using the app and website every year, almost 100,000 people on the newsletter as we can point that attention at whatever our community is most excited about. At any given time. I think if we go on to talk about what Poolsuite got next, that's what it's about. It's like hyper engaging the community and then pointing at what everyone's most excited about at that time.

Jess Sloss 26:45
Yeah, so there's a few things in there that I know a little bit more nuance to that I want to pull out because I think it shows the thoughtfulness. One thing I think I'm really interested in is this idea of attention. Because there is a business model that a very clear business model, you could roll out that is monetizing attention. But I feel like there's something more than attention here that makes I guess, both users or people want to pay attention and open the the email or link, but also creates really interesting opportunities for these sponsorships. Like you get crazy, crazy, crazy brands and people that see Poolsuite go I want to do something there. And so I think that, you know, manifest in. I mean, it sounds like the party you threw in a pizza was at some crazy, impossible venue to get at and that like just because you had a million people on your email newsletter list, you're probably not going to get an event there.

Marty Bell 27:34
Yeah. And that's the beauty of having built this brand up for years and credibility around it, we can go in and go to a venue like Pixlr theta and managed to pull off an event now before that might be very hard for someone else that just wants to throw money at it, like a big tech firm would probably struggle to do an event there we're in a really great place that we can go in and do that because of the credibility we've built up. Because of some of the people on our team who are deeply embedded in the music industry that DJs themselves. They play residencies there, were really well positioned for things like that, which is great.

Jess Sloss 28:07
So okay, so the core of your sort of step into the web three was this executive club membership card drop that we did just about a year ago. And, you know, it's sort of what is giving access to sort of this next level of community participation, both from the perks app, you know, access to these events. I'm curious, there is this sort of sense or this feeling that there's something more than just a large audience that people can can be a part of, or a large community that people can be part of within Poolsuite, and that there's, there's a deeper intention or more intentionality, you talk about sort of the layers of experience, I guess, I'm really curious if you could sort of underlying what is the layers of experience that you see the NFTs in this ecosystem, you're building, unlocking or creating?

Marty Bell 28:48
Yeah, I think it's massively deepen the connection with the people who hold those. And for a lot of these people, the first NFT they ever bought, it's like one of the first things I think they saw, because we've been giving things for free for years, and we want to sunscreen brand and people want to buy into that to be like, I've been listening to this thing for years, I want to support these guys, I'm gonna buy some sunscreen. And the next level of that was people who were super into it could buy the initial NFT for 0.2 eth. I definitely think just from being at the parties and events and meeting the people who have purchased those. They're so excited to be in early have anything more doing next? And why always here's like, how can I get more involved. So they feel more involved than they were because they have the NFT they get early access to things, but it's still very one sided. And this I've had a big change in mindset in going deep into DaaS and some of these new models that are emerging, what I thought was the right thing to do for years and the brands and businesses I built is hideaway with the team, be very quiet, work away on something and then come out with a finished product and say, here's our new product. Enjoy it buy it have fun with us and there is a big campaign and a big splash should any thought out there, it's like a surprise. And what I want the NFTs to do from now on going forward is to allow people to come into the process and build with us. So instead of all of that happening behind closed doors, I think that should all happen in the open. So I don't know if Poolsuite is going to become a full DAO, this is what we're working on right now is, I don't know if it's a full DAO, but it's something very similar to a DAO. And I see it as like an open Corporation, where instead of doing everything behind closed doors, and announcing it, you start off with the seeds of ideas. And there's maybe 20 seeds of ideas we have right now for what we want to do next. And we're equally excited about all of them, it doesn't matter to us. What matters most is what are our community most excited about, because that's what's going to work out the best is if everyone follows along with us wants to be really involved with something. So right now, the one project that we announced that everyone's very excited about is the manor DAO attempting to acquire a grand Monterey state, likely somewhere in Europe, everyone's very excited about that. So for example, we put out these 20 sets of ideas, and we asked the community to also submit their ideas for what they think we should do, because there are 1000s of incredibly smart, creative, intelligent people much smarter than me probably much smarter than most of our members. Actually, that's really mean thing to say, they might not be smarter than our team members, but definitely smarter than me. They will submit amazing ideas for what we can do next that we just haven't seen, because we're in the bubble of running this thing day to day. So we have these ideas that we put out there, a bunch of other people submit ideas, and then everyone votes on what we do next. And we go from the start of that process with everyone, whether it's the first call with a design agency in an open big jamfile. And we're playing around with concepts for what this thing looks like. Whether it's like a live boardroom meeting, under 10,000 people on the call, this really excites me so much more than hiding away behind closed doors and announcing things be everything in the open. And what inspired me to do this is there a brand that no longer exists, it was called lot 2046. And it was a subscription package, I forget the founders name, I think they called it a operating system for real life. And it was like a subscription to very basic, minimal goods, and it was always black. And it might be something like $49 a month or $99 a month, one month, you'd get a black T shirt and like a beautiful fit and wait very thoughtfully designed, perfect black T shirt, the next time you might get shoes, and but they also have like really crazy ambitious projects in there as well. So as this was happening, they were designing a vehicle and it was like a tiny home trailer called the ark. And look this thing up on Google images when you get a chance. So the Ark by lot 2046. And all of the design calls for that vehicle, they were all being broadcast live on a YouTube channel. And there was hundreds or 1000s of people following along. And we've been having these really in depth discussions around this vehicle and how it was going to come to life. And I just started with the stickers, the fucking thing in the world that I could join that call and follow along. And it was even a patron I can't remember if it was on, I think it was on their website. And you could just scroll and scroll and scroll. And there was images of all their screenshots, their working files, and it was like it was almost like you accidentally got access to a page that was meant to be password protected. But it was just all out in the open. And that's my vision for the next stage of Poolsuite we take everyone, we everything in the open, and everyone gets rewarded with points or tokens for all their contributions for their engagement. And I'm just so incredibly excited about that being the new way to build a business or a brand.

Jess Sloss 33:53
I love it. What I love about talking with the Marty I just feel like this passion when you get onto something that's like it feels very, very real for like your entire body is just like this thing. And I think actually I had conversations the previously around your passion around this idea of like the world as he described it before, right? Like I want to just we want to bring out and surprise and delight. And it was in the time when everybody was putting roadmaps and utilities. And I think it was at least I saw that as being like one of the main reasons not to want to just be this over promising. Under delivering I think it's going to be, you know, the emblematic of most NFT projects, unfortunately. But to see your passion for this sort of like, you know, what do people want to be a part of, right? They want to be a part of a committee? Well, they want to be a part of something that has momentum, something that you wouldn't get access to before and when somebody can look at Poolsuite and see like, just, you know, the net first reaction is like, what is this and how, like, why is this so awesome? Right? And you know, one of the things we didn't talk about is even the grand leisure drop, which I'm sure we do get to write which I would define as like, you get in there and there's layers of experience and input. And so I sort of see this if you think about the idea of being able to go on an adventure so when we talk about a lot of Seed Club, right what's like the call to adventure you have this idea of, you know, being part of a community is like, okay, you know, that could be a big call, but like, it's actually being a part of this making of something. And having a seat at the table of the creation of some culture, defining internet organization, I think is just so much more powerful, at least in my mind, especially for the people. When you think about building a community, it's not for everybody, right? It can't be for everybody. It shouldn't be for everybody. But for people who get that thing and want to participate in that thing, it would be probably the most amazing experience around and there's going to be some random designer, somewhere in the world that doesn't have access to the career opportunities that exist here. But it's just absolute genius that's going to show up in that community. And that's super excited.

Marty Bell 35:39
Yeah, I get very excited thinking about how the way we launched vacation was with this, we had a business card generator, and you could generate a ridiculous job title for yourself and save down the business card. And it was things like Jacuzzi hot tub, temperature analyst, or VP of Speedball weddings. And it was just like, it was so ridiculous and absurd. I think there was like a bunch of people who posted it like Alexis Ohanian. And Indian entrepreneurs, his name, like a bunch of big names posted it just because it was this fun little gimmick. But what happened with that is because people were part of the humor from the start. And because for example, on Instagram, every single time someone comments on one of our Instagram posts, there will be a replay. And that replay will be in character. And they'll have this fun little interaction. The same with every single comment on any of our Facebook posts, Facebook ads, everyone gets a reply in character, and it makes more people join in. And so any post we have, there'll be like a bunch of people from our community like checking in with their job role, and playing into the whole character and persona and fun of the brand. Because we brought them into it more closely. And they have a more close connection with us now than probably any other brand they've bought from. And so it's going like so much deeper on why that has worked for vacation is going 100 times deeper on that now with Poolsuite and bringing people in. So when we design the next product, and I'm not saying that's going to be a consumer packaged good product like vacation, it's probably not it could be an app, it could be a manor house, the bringing people in much, much deeper than that than just a fun job role, I think is that's breaking new ground and how you build projects and brands and companies.

Jess Sloss 37:26
The seat that I sit at and thinking about DAOs building, and what I'm seeing is so many new worlds be built, right. And right now the tools we have are, you know, bits and pieces that are being put together. But what we're seeing from some of the most exciting DAOs are that they're building, you know, it looks much more like an operating system that's being built, and it looks like a Discord server. And I'm just imagining what your team's take on the operating system that is for the Poolsuite DAO or whatever it becomes, I just think there's gonna be something really interesting in there. And that's like, if I think about what am I most excited about in the DAO space right now it's thinking about how teams go from this capturing that level of attention that people are a part of this adventure to how do you actually activate them in a way that is very relevant for the type of organization business community that you're trying to build for? And I think there's going to be a lot of nuance between the different types out there. Yeah, I just I'm very excited to see what you guys come up with.

Marty Bell 38:19
Yeah, that piece specifically, I had a really fun call with my man, Andreas Larson on our team today about in onboarding people into a DAO and calling a DAO. Again, I don't know if it's gonna be a DAO, it's something similar to a DAO we're going to come some new term probably, like we have hundreds of 1000s of people to potentially bring into this thing. They are not going to go and open a Metamask account, and they're not going to learn how to use a ledger if they don't want to do any of that. So we have this, this is a really exciting problem to me UI UX experience, how do you make it exciting for people to come and engage with our projects, and get very involved and be involved in picking where this Manor is? or picking who the interior designers going to be? Or on Grand leisure? Like? Which brands do we want to go and work with to do the first expansion pack for the leisure as characters? How do we make that process so fun, and easy and rewarding? And how do we track the people are doing that to reward them that as like we are going to spend a lot of our time and resource in solving that problem. And in the way that we're building a lot of tools internally that we intend to white label and let other projects use as well. So things like our wallet passthat. One of the first things we did with our exec member NFT because we put it in Apple wallet, and I don't think any other projects done that yet. We've got that working for every other NFT project now, so it's really cool. I have a bunch of I just got my boys club Zadie NFT, and my apple wallet. I haven't showed them out yet. They're gonna find out like listening to this podcast that they can do their boys club NFT is an apple Wallet. So like we're building tools in the way to just achieve things. We want to do like, we want people to have a nice experience when they come to our party, it makes sense to put it in the Apple Wallet. So people could just flash it and walk in. We're building really powerful tools as part of our operating system, you're talking about that we're going to like spin out on white label. And that could be some kind of sub DAO that works on those b2b tools and relationships we build for ourselves, and then we spell it out for other people to use as well. So I think we're building a lot of value there as well, with tools like that. And I think this is the most important piece that we were just discussing is bringing people in without them having to have a metamask. Or without going through anything complicated. And being able to get involved in governance and voting and earning rewards. That's the problem to solve for us.

Jess Sloss 40:41
Yeah, I think this idea of technology, optionality and DAOs is going to be a popular one. Because I've talked about this pretty much every episode, I'm just so convinced that the people who are going to solve these complicated problems that exist for DAOs for those people, most likely building DAOs, or products that are being built very closely in association with DAOs. And so and this is because, you know, we talked earlier about still trying to find product market fit, these businesses are still an organization's we're still trying to discover how they become sustainable. The idea of like, a SaaS typetool coming in, and being able to find product market fit for themselves when this thing hasn't found product market fit just seems like very compact until like this, the nuance and the understanding. And like the innovation, the tinkering, that's required to actually get to something useful here, I think is going to happen at these at the level of designers and developers at solving a specific problem. So I think that's interesting. I'm gonna call it technology, optionality. I've got a presentation to bankers I'm giving next week. And they're like, what's the ROI of DAOs. And I'm like technology option has jumped over so much in this conversation, I'm sure there's, there's much but I want to make sure we do touch on Grand leisure, because I think that is both like, such an example of this multi layered experience. And also, I think, probably some interesting lessons learned from that drop as well. So fit grand leisure into this sort of world view that you have around what Poolsuite is, and then we'd love to kind of get into the nuance around it.

Marty Bell 42:03
I'm trying to think where the idea started, Jamie on our team, who has been the mastermind behind a lot of it, I think it was a seed of an idea from him. And we really wanted to try and play around with innovating in web three. And like, how could we do NFT project and take it to a new level that had not been done before and build an insane user experience on top of it, we wanted to see like how we'd get on if we tried to do something that was like very difficult and very new, and see if that was like a space we could play and it would go disastrously. So we teamed up with the legends in dedeaux, who were our technical partner on the project. And we built this very 80s inspired as always character creator. So you could design your own leisurerist character from all these wild like hairdos, sunglasses, skin tones, face busts, and some very high end Lux 80s garments. And there was like, I don't know, over a billion possible combinations of what you could create. And we put so much love and time and effort and care into this thing. And I would say the main learning is that we put far too much of that into it, because it took us we've probably worked on that six months, maybe a little bit more, you might know the timeline better than I did from when I started talking about it. And we built it in a flying bear market, not in a bear market in a bull market. And then we launched it on a bear market. So it was really designed for, as well NFT projects designed for a bear market, I don't think but it did not have the explosive reaction that we thought it might have. But we put tons of love, and innovation and attention to detail in it. And I think that got recognized a bunch of great people posted and breakdowns on the whole experience the device we made in the browser called the leisures 3000. It was inspired by the Macintosh portable computer, even just like the amount of effort we put into building that device that you create the characters on, and the little sound effects and the little blinking lights. That's all the stuff we get excited about. It's the last 5% of the experience, where will you just go to town on the little bits and pieces of the experience that matter most to us and that I can get most excited about. So I'm so proud of that project. And I think we built something incredible. And we're only going to start seeing now why innovative and it's with the expansion packs, the metadata upgrades and all the things that are about to come so you'll be able to buy expansion packs, actually they're gonna be free to begin with for holders, the expansion packs and you can upgrade your avatar via the leader 3000 device and you can swap out your sunglasses, you can change your hair do you can like put your leisure as on holiday and swap out the bike around so they're in some other location. There's going to be so many fun things you can do an update the original artwork of the NFT. So if it's in an opensea that will refresh to this new artwork, which feels very new. And it opens up a lot of possibilities to us for partnering with brands. We've had some really exciting conversations with big brands about them potentially doing a series of assets. thought might be a collection, like some jewelry, some eyewear, a shirt on my new hairdo and a background. And we can launch that for the brand. And the Leisure's can claim it for free, there might be some physical item component that people get to claim, I think the actual magic of the project is, is yet to be discovered, I'm really excited to start pushing that. And in about a week, maybe towards the end of this week, we might get the proposal system out, which is inspired by the Nouns prohouse, for anyone that holds the leisure can submit their own ideas for what we do with all this IP and this brand world. And then people get to vote on it. And then we go and do. And that's a fun, like first experiment in governance for us and opening up to not just it being a very one sided relationship, this is our first time dabbling in having the community built with us. So the launch of that people been able to submit proposals and ideas as the very first part of what's going to become the whole thing purple. So we're going forward.

Marty Bell 42:47
There's a few things that I want to call out about that drop. One is the very first mint experience I've had where I've left the browser open afterwards just to vibe with the music. And I've heard that from multiple people. When I sort of set back the timing was really unfortunate, right, like this thing that if you saw it happened six months before would have. And maybe I don't know if this had been a good thing, but it would have sold out in minutes, it would like there was a time where this just would have been the biggest thing on the internet. And, you know, NFT volume dropped significantly. And here you are, but what I saw was how your team adapted to it, right? So like, there's one thing to put out a mint. And then for to, to there's I think 3100 holders, it's all over Twitter, like, without a doubt traction here. But also it wasn't the immediate sellout. And, you know, in 30 seconds, like I think, would have been an incredible success. But this idea of like, I mean, the freeze, right? Tell me how you sort of like, you know, there's this didn't go the way you want it to go. People could just sort of walk away from it be like, Well, fuck, that didn't work. Let's move on to the next thing. But what makes me excited is like the way that the story just picks up there. If you make a small pivot, and you sort of step on to the next evolution of this thing, right? Like it's just a part of this broader is almost like the product design didn't stop at the Mint. There's this so much more going on here. So how did you sort of Yeah, overcome that challenge of like this not going quite as well as you want it to?

Marty Bell 47:28
Yeah, so the decision ultimately came down to did we want to keep spending our time and efforts on marketing, the the mint that we could sell more to build up the treasury more to be able to do more things with the project. And so that would mean, we had to spend our time, not on the things we wanted to spend our time on, we'd have to go out there and work on like partnerships. And basically, we would have had to spend a lot of time marketing that thing to get it to men out. And we weren't so much more excited about just getting to building. And we're we like to under promise and over deliver that we just wanted to stop them in happening. So we didn't have to have that ongoing problem of it not being meant to do and this mismatch between the floor price on the aftermarket and not being finished. And we're just a really awkward situation to be in. So we thought, let's freeze this thing over, we have the storyline about how crypto when winter is set into the Leatrice 3000, we're going to freeze mint and it's gonna be a much smaller collection than it was going to be it was meant to be 10k. Now it's like 3.2k. So there's less people in there's positives in that and having a smaller, more tight knit community. And we're gonna get to building and we're gonna get to proving how exciting this collection is through launching proposals and building some really sick shit that the community have suggested that we built. And we go and do that and just get into all the fun stuff, get some brand partnerships out. And that's all much more interesting to our team than like continuing to bang on about minting this thing. So we put it on we and we freeze it in. And I think we're in a great position. Now. I just saw opensea we are over them in price, the floor is incredibly thin. I think there's less than 1% of people have them listed. It's actually in a really good position now. So I'm glad we decided to do that.

Jess Sloss 49:18
We love you sharing the story of the pathway into web three. I think that the reality is a number of in crypto we call mercenaries versus missionaries, right there's this when money flows in the Web2 folks show up and they start to build and when money flows away, then those folks leave and what's left are the people who are building for a reason. And I think there's going to be a lot of folks that are you know, have launched these NFT projects that are faced with tough challenges around where they want to be investing their heartbeats, especially when the economic rewards in the short term might not be as obvious or massive. So I'm curious like what gives you such conviction to continue to build here, you just be focusing on vacation, there's a whole bunch of other things you could go do instead of this, which seems like it's gonna be exciting but also a challenging road ahead.

Marty Bell 50:01
I feel like I've been looking for these business models since I started my first company 10 years ago, and everything that's emerging right now, whether it's the Nouns model, or it's some of the DAOs, we're seeing all of this innovation around raising capital with a group of people who are excited about the same things, is the most exciting thing to me in the world. And I firmly believe this is the future of business. And I think people are not paying attention to it enough right now, because all they see are maybe like monkey JPEGs, and cartoon imagery, and makes people take this stuff less seriously. But in the next year or so, things are going to start dropping using these models that are going to change the game and so many different industries. And I just, I want to be part of that wave, because these are the frameworks that I've been looking for the whole time. And I know can't imagine doing it a different way.

Jess Sloss 50:53
Here here. I feel that deeply. I think, like, it's interesting to because we're in this, this connecting the dots period, right? Where like, it's, yeah, you've brought such an experience, and all these other things that make seeing this opportunity, just like a Hell yeah, I'm in the same way different angle, different paths to the space. But also, I'm like, I couldn't imagine doing anything else. This is just the most interesting combination of so many things that I've been passionate about for so long. And yet, I think for folks who might not have that experience, connecting dots are just so important. And it's why you see, like, the 10k, PFP just become such a popular thing. It's because that flipped a switch for folks, I think vacation, the sort of brand partnership you did back in the day is actually such an interesting dot to connect here. And I think it's sort of maybe it's a great example of what you know, at least in our conversations, where I see you having so much conviction in, in the future of this thing, you're building certification, as he explained earlier, it's a sunscreen brand, that, you know, sort of partnered with another group, it's its own company, sort of leveraged the Poolsuite brand that also launched a brand new brand. And they're sort of like this, that that structure seems like an interesting pathway to go down around, you know, bringing your community or at least bringing the brand power to help launch a package could and, you know, to whatever you're able to talk about, I think it's important sort of, or it could be valuable to sort of pull that apart a little bit and also highlight the success that vacation has had, and then how you sort of see that informing what you're building today.

Marty Bell 52:14
Right, so we just closed our Series A for vacation, it's now a $30 million business, we launched it last summer. And that shows the power of channeling the Poolsuite community and pointing it towards an incredibly good product store shout out to my co founders liking to call up because they have built an exceptional product range. And each one of the products is inherently viral in its own right. And the community designer and the thoughtfulness of just everything in that brand, I think is the pinnacle of sector standard that I want everything I do to be at going forward. But if you think about how that might happen, now. So we're considering going and raising a five to $10 million Treasury for poolsuite in the coming months. And so the way that this might work, the next time is the luck and Dakota would come to me and they'd submit a proposal to Poolsuite to the DAO. And all of our community would decide amongst several other ideas, if they were excited about launching that sunscreen brand. And instead of us going and hiding away and building vacation quietly like we did, we do it all out in the open and everyone would feel so a part of that. So there'd be 1000s of people joining the early design calls and helping design the packaging. And we'd be shipping samples of the product out to all these people and gathering feedback. And that's how it would work the next time. That's how it's going to work the next time around. And again, I'm vacation maybe not the best example, because we're probably going to lean more until like software hospitality is I think, where it's probably more likely to go. Oh, and the piece I missed is that the seed round for vacation would come from the Poolsuite treasury. And then even if we spun out the vacation company as its own LLC, the Poolsuite treasury would own the equity for the initial seed round and for kind of incubating it. So Poolsuite as a DAO will be an incubator of our communities ideas, and each one of them can be a completely different model, which is really exciting. So something might be, it could be a collection of vintage cars that you can invest in. And that's one economic model. And then the next one is a app that helps you sleep. That's the worst idea ever, firstly. But you know, it's like these Yeah, you can you can tell, every single thing can be a completely different product. And it can be a completely different economic or business model. And some of them might not even have a business model, it might just be a fun thing that we want to do. It might be a charity initiative. It's wherever the community is excited about and we go all in on it for a couple of months, and we launch that thing and then we're on to the next. That's the model.

Jess Sloss 54:47
I love your creativity. And I'm excited to dive into these different models with you also putting a caveat out here. We're exploring design space here. These are no promises. There's no you got to be very careful here as well because I think you You know, the what I what I love about our conversation, this is a very clear example of how we we just like there's these ideas thrown on the table. And then usually I'm like, But Marty, okay, we can't do with that specifically, and then we kind of come at it. So just what like, I think the shape of that I totally agree with, I think this idea of like, DAOs, being the incubators, DAOs being the cultural hubs. DAOs being the resources of these things is just so obviously, where this goes. And I think what's exciting now is and also challenging is how do we actually structure those in a way that actually distributes high value to people who are contributing? And also does it in a way that is, in line with the ever evolving unclear, gray market of legal ideas that exist in the world? Yeah, I think it's super exciting to see that possibility. And I think, totally agree, we're one hit away from this just being the most obvious thing to so many people, especially when I speak to people that you know, I like to jam with the most, which I would say you are like a great avatar of right, somebody who's just ridiculously creative, curious, passionate, with like, this deep. There's this intensity and authenticity that comes through with people who I think are building for the right reasons and building for the long term. And, you know, I just think that having the financial tools and these new Legos that we can you know, that folks that can have to go build new worlds together, it's just walking, putting myself up here. Let's go. That's fine. Go. Alright, we're coming up on the hour here. I asked my friends at Farcaster for some questions. So I'm gonna hit you a couple lightning questions here. Let's see where it goes. People are interested to hear so I feel like if I here's the growth hack here is I'm going to ask them these questions. Then I'm going to post on Farcaster and say look, Farcaster community, Marty, ask your questions. Isn't he amazing slash come listen to this podcast, because that's ultimately where we're going. Little boys club question here. What's your dream vacation destination?

Marty Bell 56:46
Oh, I'm so excited about being settled down in Lisbon right now. I'm not going anywhere for a while because I've been moving around too much like building a life here in Lisbon, an exciting IRL community around Poolsuite getting super involved in the web three scene here. I want to be on vacation right here in Lisbon.

Jess Sloss 57:04
I love the answer. I love that answer. I love that answer. Somebody's asking the question of tell me the story behind the epic Pavarotti on a moped photo.

Marty Bell 57:13
I mean, the story behind that is just my friend grant sent it to me one day and said, I've never seen a more closely image in my life than this. And that image I post all the time. Everywhere is the pinnacle. If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about here, go and google images and search Pavarotti scooter that is the single best jpg or JPEG series on Earth. And we can go so much deeper on this because share our noun does have snapshot fame. In the deep clubhouse days, when we were all locked up indoors, we went on this wild wine fueled mission to find out where that exact scooter is right now. And I'm gonna skip the whole story. But Aundrea found out and managed to get in touch with a daughter of Pavarotti. And we are now in conversations with them about acquiring that Guto. So doesn't leak. But yeah, there you go. These are the kinds of things we spend our time on. They're very important to the brand.

Jess Sloss 58:15
I love it. This might be a spicy question. Tell me your thoughts on Discord.

Marty Bell 58:20
I think it works. For some people, I think the FWB Discord is really great. I have never seen, I wanted to establish Poolsuite at the start when we launched the exact membership as not like every other NFT project, which was primarily you bought the NFT and you got access to this awesome community, apparently, and they'd throw some mold in there, and there'd be 10,000 people in there. And it would be chaos. And it wasn't properly moderated. And I still wanted to not be attached to that. And I thought the easiest way to say I wanted this to be about us building cool things and products and IRL events. I didn't want it to be your unlocking a cool community to hang out. And that's not what we're selling. So I just decided not to have a discord. And it's worked out really well for us because the focus is now on the things we're building. As opposed to having to spend a lot of our time managing the space and thinking how we keep interaction and engagement going on space. I've run a Slack chat room for founders for years. And I know how hard it is and how much energy it takes to have a thriving community. That's like a full time job for a team to do that. Right. So I think if you're willing to invest in it in the way that FWB do to make it an incredibly good place to hang out, then yeah, FWB could probably be anywhere. It could be on Slack. It could be on Discord, it could be on Geneva, and it would do well. So I don't love it as a tool. They don't seem to be embracing web three in any way, in the way that things like Geneva are, I wouldn't choose to build on there and I find it stressful and chaotic. When I go in there. I'm normally like going into the FWB or the Seed Club discord and i am find it.

Jess Sloss 58:34
The only thing I hang out in right now is the Seed Club discord. And it's just due to the emotional burden of trying to get in and make sense of what's happening in other places. And my guess is that we'll see many, many, many. And I think it comes back to your point. They're like, what are you building? is the thing that community or is it the thing, a communication channel or thing in support of something else? For us?

Marty Bell 1:00:22
Yeah. And I think people blur the line too much. And they think they have to have a community. And I don't think that's necessarily right. Like, if you're selling a community, yes, you need a space for people to hang out.

Jess Sloss 1:00:31
Well, yeah. And also, I think community happens in so many other places, too. So anyway, we don't need to go down to sort of my last question here. And we'll wrap up is, which I think is good. You know, Natty asks, How do you balance creativity slashes of alienness with usefulness? How do you think about that?

Marty Bell 1:00:48
I think the usefulness comes first. Like you have to have an exciting idea about something that people will give a shit about. So that could be a music app. It could be the wallet service that we're building. It could be the functionality of the grand leisure project, or the efficacy of the vacation sunscreen product. And then you layer all the fun and ridiculousness on top of something that would have product market. But it just gets like better and better. The more you layer craziness on top, I guess.

Jess Sloss 1:01:21
I love the word zaniness to describe your works that well, in my mind, but I also think it kind of does. I'll take like Nicole called you the Willy Wonka of web three, which I think is kind of fun in its own ways.

Marty Bell 1:01:36
I feel like I'm more like, maybe more like an oompa loompa in stature anyway.

Jess Sloss 1:01:41
Now we started this conversation was this, Marty I mean, I wouldn't employ this a little not fair to you. But you're a bundle of creativity and joy and excitement packaged into a small human, which I think is just wonderful. Alright, then I know. I mean, this podcast was so long in the making. And I think we wanted to make sure that was the right time to kind of you just been on such a journey and getting clear on so many things and to hear you share about it here today. With me knowing just all the history and stuff like that. It's it's really great to see the clarity and excitement that has come along with that for what's what's you know, you're working on a Poolsuite. So people are excited. I know people are excited right now, like what is the best place to make sure that they are in the know of what's next?

Marty Bell 1:02:25
I would say our telegram group. If you want to go to t.me forward slash Poolsuite. All our main announcements happen in there. It's just an announcements channel, Poolsuite on Twitter I am Marty on Twitter, and you should check out our Palm report newsletter which you can find poursuite dotnet comes out every two weeks. It's really fun. Shout out Emily who runs it. I think you'll have fun if you subscribe.

Jess Sloss 1:02:46
Amazing. Thanks, Marty. We'll see you on the internet.

Marty Bell 1:02:48
Thank you so much for having me Jess, peace.

Stepn 1:02:51
Hello friends Steph here media team steward at Seed Club. If you liked this episode, please subscribe rate and review building at the edges because helps other Web3 builders discover these valuable insights and tell us what you think on Twitter. Tag us at that Seed Club HQ. Thanks for listening. See you on the Internet.